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Welcome to Wikipedia! Glad you like it so far. --KQ

Yes, welcome! This is the first I've heard of a Herald-Tribune article. Could you possibly add the details to the press mentions section of friends of Wikipedia? Maybe that's not necessary--it's probably just a reprint of the New York Times article. By the way, I agree with you re: Americo-centricity of articles. I wish people would be more sensitive about this. --Larry Sanger

  • Yes, it's the same article as the NY Times (IHT is published by the same people). I read it in Kuala Lumpur (!), so you've really gone world-wide. I guess you can expect lots of 'International English' speaking people to turn up soon :) -- Manning

I have noted that Americo-centricity often ten to occur when authors have little information from other countries to correlate with. Especially in the areas of language and law (gun law especially, for some reason :-), the bias is often present. The current restrictions on the character set availble for article titles are far worse than most bias IMHO. Welcome to Wikipedia! --Anders Törlind

And a welcome from me, as well. I see you've jumped in with both feet! As to your question about your entries for Tasmania and Van Diemens Land, I say it's good to have both. Probably under the latter some history about the name should be added, and when and why it was changed. Have fun! -- STG

Hi Manning and welcome... About your renaming of pages to things such as Presidents of the United States of America, Prime Ministers of Australia -- wouldn't it be better in the singular? For one thing, I'd hope the articles will eventually contain more than just lists, but more detailed info on the nature of the office (see Governor-General of Australia) -- in which case a better name would be without the plural. Secondly, what if I want to include in an article something like: "Jacques Chirac, current President of France"? If you make it a plural (i.e. Presidents of France) it becomes plural. But other than those minor quibbles, good work so far. -- Simon J Kissane

  • I see your point... I've got some real work to do at present, so go ahead and make the changes (plural to singular) if you want. If you haven't got time I'll do it later. Chrz Manning

Good to see another Australian here! -- Claudine in Melbourne

  • Same to you Claudine!

status note: Sept 28... OK work is demanding that I do something related to their welfare for a few days (damn fascists!). I'll be back into full swing by Monday... (boohoo) Oct 1 - back on line!

Awww! Too bad! Hey, I noticed that on [1] you said we're averaging 8,000 uniques--well, that's not true. It was down to 5,XXX yesterday, and will probably drop a bit further today (but probably not much further). Those 8,000-unique days were red-letter days, the response to the K5, NYT, and IHT coverage. Things will be back to "normal" (hah) soon. Of course, I fully expect that within a few months we will average 8,000 uniques a day.  :-) I'm also not sure about that 1,000 articles a week figure!  :-) No big deal, just thought I'd set the record straight, that's all. --LMS

Larry - it's called "Marketing". :) Oh well, 8000 uniques a day isn't far off... and I like to promote Wikipedia as much as I can. BTW - you can find me on UseNet under the name "Rabo Karabekian" (now where does that name come from?) MB

Did you resolve your browser problems by the way? --Anders Törlind anders - not yet. I'm working on a consulting job in an office in Malaysia and hence have to abide by their rules regarding what browser to use. When I get home to Sydney (Nov 1) I will be able to use my own machine, thankfully, and not have these problems. --MB

Caught some of your comments on scientific method Talk page. What I have found here on wiki is that there are a few (nameless) people that are impervious to differences in opinion. On one (nameless) page I got caught up in trying to illustrate a technical point which defies intuition. The upshot was that after presenting my point backed up with technical references (graduate texts in mathematics), it didn't matter. The material still on the page is technically incorrect. This has happened a couple of times. As a result, I never write anything on wiki that I know a lot about, or anything that is close to my heart. Either way gets me too involved, and it just isn't worth the time and trouble. Your mileage may vary of course. It's still fun though!

I think this may be one of the most sensible thing anyone has ever said to me :) Much appreciated. (Who the hell are you, BTW?)
I am an anonymous person. Wiki articles are unsigned, and I choose to remain that way myself. For publication glory, I go to peer-reviewed journals. Much harder to get published, but credit is dispensed accordingly.

....across the clouds i see my shadow fly
out of the corner of my watering eye
a dream unthreatened by the morning light
could blow this soul right through the roof of the night...©1987 pink floyd music publishers(bmi) martyr yourself to caution
is not going to help at all
because there'll be no safety in numbers
when the right one walks out of the door...©1994 pink floyd music ltd.

Re the Internet humor Girlfriend links: the Wiki software automatically wikifies CamelCase words. Compare

GirlFriend Girlfriend GirlFriend

You, Manning, are a brave soul. Fight the good fight. --MichaelTinkler.

Deletion of the red was an accident; I was just scanning through for anything beginning "<font", and then kicking out the closing tag too. I think colors should be used sparingly, if ever, in articles; I can't imagine why we would ever need to use a special font unless to demonstrate what that font looks like. And even that wouldn't make much sense, since it would work only for people who had the font already. --KQ

New- MB massive changes on New Age. email me. ~BF

Manning, thanks for your work on Salieri, saved me some research and typing... sjc

No probs mate. that's why I don't mind stub articles, it often prompts me to do something I would never have thought of myself. - MB

Regarding your comments on Scientific method. Despite your claim that it's "pretentious", strictly speaking is is more correct to write "an hypothesis" though "a hypothesis" has become acceptable. It's not pretention, it's formal grammar. John Lynch

Sorry john - you're not correct on this - - See also my notes at [scientific method/Talk]

Have a look what philosophers of science write and check what thw word "pretentious" means (

Thanks for the link, it reinforces my claim: "expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature". That is precisely the context in which I used it. The adoption of foreign grammatical methods in the mid-19th century was expressly tied to humiliation of the less-well-educated and lower socio-economic classes. - MB

yes, but when the usage becomes part of the parlance of a modern group, it is no longer 'pretentious', it is merely part of the linga franca of the group in question. Accusing whoever was writing "an hypothesis" within the article of being "pretentious" was a false accusation.

I did put the :) character after it, but joking and serious slandering can be hard to distinguish in text. I still think it is pretentious (for all my reasons given elsewhere), but maybe I'm intending the word in a much less loaded context than is beng interpreted. Anyway - no offence is intended, certainly. My argument is that it is only the parlance of a limited and elevated section of society, and hence should be discouraged. - MB

I'm sorry about the dots. You seem as obsessed with days as I'm with years. --Tsja

No problem - at least I hadn't done the entire year. And there are only 366 days to do (thank god!) - MB

Hey, don't stress over the dots in the historical anniversaries page. I'm going through them too (when I can), making sure that each of them has at least a few births/deaths/events, so I can catch them then if you don't want to bother with it. I didn't chane the example page b/c I honestly didn't think anyone would take the initiative to help out w/ such a monotonous task. Thanks for your help. :-) --KQ

I'll start from December 31 and work backwards. --KQ

No prob - it's good to do when I can't think of anything more useful. I've reformatted up to Feb 5 or so. I'll meet you in June-July :) I thought Events - Births - Deaths was the best order, events should be more significant in my opinion. - MB

I had it the other way just because it was alphabetical. Your way probably makes more sense. I jumped around a few months, didn't see any dots, and started in February; we've met up already. Are there others to change scattered throughout? --KQ

I'm going through rather dogmatically, so I'm sure I'll find them. there were 2-3 pages I edited today in sept or may I think.

Well, I just finished taking the dots out of December (I went back to the 23rd or so, didn't see any, and assumed incorrectly that you hadn't gotten that far). The entries are still mostly BDE, though, if you'd care to change them. I don't mind either way; I'd stay and help but I have to leave for class now. I'll help out later if there's anything left to do. --KQ

<sob> I love you, Man! Grits are serious business, though. I was once party to a conversation where certain contributor from the South chastised one of our yankee compatriots on saying he liked grits, and then finding out said Yankee was talking about <gasp> the INSTANT kind! (And Instant are nasty, by the way...ugh) Oh -- and grits were definitely created in Cream of Wheat's image... (j/k) JHK

No time to reply JHK, I'm busy issuing a "fatwa" against all consumers of instant grits. (AND YES - I KNOW THAT JOKE IS BAD TASTE, lighten up!).
It's ok -- instant grits are also in bad taste! JHK

Hey, I finished de-dotting through October 1 (and also putting entries in E-B-D order). I'll work on it some more when next I get a chance--probably not before Thursday. Regards, --KQ

KQ (and anyone else who cares...) actually I'll be offline from Oct 18 for two weeks - got a business trip in the UK and Europe and won't have regular PC access. So you'll get way ahead of me. I get back to Australia Nov 3. - MB


MB, thanks for putting the old "Robots in Lit" in the delete list. I wasn't familiar with this.

Wikipedia Watchdogs have to have their preferences set on "show minor edits", and check minor edits by unknown authors...there are lots of "weasels" out there....AN

Manning have a nice trip. Hope you enjoy Scotland too =). When you get back to oz it will be Spring yes ? Smell a flower and go visit some native Aussies in the Outback, and write an article too ! ~BF

Hi Manning -- first of all, thanks for breaking the (hopefully unofficial) Wikipedia ban on posting to my page :-). Second, you wrote: Not ALL cultures have a musical or oral tradition, particularly for children. Zounds. I'd love to see some documentation for this. Does this mean that there are (well, let's only consider live cultures for now) cultures with only a written tradition? Cultures with no musical tradition? Cultures who forbid their children, from the crib onwards, from singing and telling stories?... you see why I'm astounded! Or just confused. Enlighten me.

They're rare, but there are a handful of examples. The word "majority" would be better than "many". There are some aboriginal tribes which consider music sacred, so that only elder men may sing songs, and the songs are taught during sacred rituals in adulthood. It is forbidden for women or children to sing. There are other examples, but only one is needed to prove that "all" is an inaccurate statement. - regards MB

Very interesting. Thanks for the info. And okay, you're a confessed Wikipediholic, I shouldn't be surprised you updated that WAY too fast :-). Cheers, NickelKnowledge

Well *sigh* yes, I am a weeny bit obsessed. But I'm going offline in a little under 12 hours (flying to London from Kuala Lumpur) and I will be offline until Nov 2-3. So I'll be quiet for a while. Great nickname, by the way. - MB

Added the good bit of your second paragraph to the Nursery rhyme page, double check me. - NK

Are you back, Manning? It looks like you're back! I hope so!  :-) --LMS

Yeah. Welcome back! <>< tbc

Hi Manning, how was your trip?

I was wondering if it would be beneficial to merge City listing and World capital cities, maybe by pointing out the capitals on City listing with a special font or something. --AxelBoldt

Welcome home MB. Missed you. ~BF

Hi Manning, welcome back! I'm thinking that your /Naughty people page might do more harm than good. When people vandalize Wikipedia, they're looking for some sort of reaction. As pathetic as it seems, I think they get a kick out of being listed. Personally, I keep a file on my computer to check up on certain vistors; serves the same purpose without giving public recognition. My opinion, anyway. --STG