Teutonic Knights/Talk

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The Order and its relations with its neighbours (especially Poland) are the main motive in a novel by the Polish author Henryk Sienkiewicz Krzyzacy (The Teutonic Knights).

(This novel, like most of Sienkiewicz's writings,

shows strong pro-Polish and anti-German bias)

Sienkiewicz was a writer not a historian, wasn't he ?
Kpjas

Well, some historical fiction is more accurate than others. For instance, The Teutonic Knights is more accurate than Quo Vadis. --MichaelTinkler, who's actually read both.

Of course, he was a writer not a historician, but he was also a Polish nationalist, and one should be prepared to have lot of distance to his "historical" books before reading them if one doesn't want to get false vision of historical events. --Taw


H.Jonat -- What are "imperial Hapsburg members" ? This entire sentence makes no sense in English.

Answer to the question of "what are imperial Habsburg members" : The Habsburg royal and imperial dynasty of Europe ruled many countries and furnished many German kings/ emperors of the Holy Roman Empire. They also lead the "Order of the Golden Fleece" and after 1525 were the Grand Masters of the Teutonic Knights. Outside links showing emperor

No duh. Most of the contributors here know who the Hapsburgs were. The point (which you missed) is that the sentence makes no sense. Are you trying to say that, after a certain date, the leadership of the TKs fell and remained under the control of the Hapsburgs? Then please do so. If you just mean that they were members of the Habsburg family (and I would be very careful about saying imperial, since there really isn't such a thing -- different branches of the family held the title, but were often in direct conflict with each other...)

The Habsburgs were imperial, royal, ducal, comites? and whatever , in short a ruling dynasty of Europe. From what I can make out in the article on the T. K. by Sinclair, they were not the only ones after 1525, but others were Teutonic Grand Masters too. They were the emperors of the Holy Roman Empire for nearly 500 years collectively. The emperors were always first German king, then emperor. And Maximilian III was the son of emperor Maximilian II and the brother of emperor Mathias and he was from the imperial Habsburg dynasty, even though he was not himself emperor. How would you word this ? H. Jonat


Since it has little to do with the imperial aspect of the Habsburgs, I would just say Habsburg. Not every Habsburg bore every title -- and titles like King of Germany were often wishful thinking, since there was no "Germany" -- just a bunch of principalities. If the family (in its various branches) really dominated the office of GM of the Tks, then simply saying Habsburg will let people know that it was the family in general. At the same time, they will automatically link (in their minds, as well as on the wikipedia) the imperial part -- as in "oh -- those guys who were emperors for so long." Sometimes it works better to allow people to make obvious conclusions rather than to point them out in a way that may not be entirely accurate. The way it was, people could easily think that the GM was tied to the office of Emperor, so that the Emperor would automatically be head of the TKs!


Sounds alright. I took out the imperial and just linked the Habsburg. Thanks H. Jonat